S5 E8: HR’s Juggling Act in Manufacturing: Recruitment, Training, and Retention

Podcast May 7, 2024

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• Link to AIM HR’s Training Catalog
• Link to AIM HR’s Recruiting Services
• Link to AIM HR’s Services

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Transcript:

Pete Wright:
Welcome to Human Solutions, simplifying HR for people who love HR. From AIM HR Solutions on True Story FM, I’m Pete Wright. And this week, we’re talking all about human resources in manufacturing. We’re talking trends. We’re talking recruitment. We’re talking workplace peace and vocational training and benefits. And we’re joined by two very special guests to help us do just that. Our own, Terry Cook, brings her extensive manufacturing background to bear with every helpline call she answers.
And Lucille Ward, a seasoned HR pro from Package Steel Systems, has played a crucial role in developing innovative HR strategies that not only meet the competitive demands of the manufacturing industry, but also foster a nurturing and productive work environment. Together, they’re going to help me get the human solutions fake manufacturing plants HR house in order, and hopefully give you some new ideas, too. Terry, Lucille, welcome to the show.

Terry Cook:
Thank you.

Lucille Ward:
Thank you. Welcome. Thank you for that wonderful introduction.

Pete Wright:
Well, I’m so glad to have you here. And I’ve been talking about my fake manufacturing plant for years now. And I clearly don’t know what I’m doing. The place is in complete disarray. So, I’m glad you’re here to help straighten it out.
Give me a sense, Lucille, I’m going to have you go first, I want you to kick off this discussion by telling us a little bit about Package Steel and what you do, your role there, because in our pre-show chat, you do a lot. And I want to make sure people listening understand what goes into the role for you.

Lucille Ward:
Oh, well, my role here is HR manager as well as all the accounting down to the general ledger, making sure there’s coffee in the kitchen, toilet paper in the bathroom, dish and cook bottle washer, you name it. We have about 45 employees. And we try and I try very hard to keep everybody happy.

Pete Wright:
I’m sure HR people listening are like, “Okay.” You got HR, maybe accounting, bottle washer’s a lock. I’ll bet-

Lucille Ward:
Bottle washer is a lock.

Pete Wright:
… people relate to that bottle.

Lucille Ward:
In fact, somebody put over, and you can edit this out if you want, the sink because I was complaining about all the dishes in the sink all the time. And somebody put a sign up, which is, “Don’t do dishes.”

Terry Cook:
Gosh.

Lucille Ward:
Don’t do dishes.

Pete Wright:
Oh, my goodness.

Terry Cook:
Oh, my goodness.

Lucille Ward:
So, it’s still there for 10 years hanging over the sink. It’s a lovely little memory. So, then I threw out all the silverware. And they can’t use it anymore.

Pete Wright:
Well, I’m sure Terry relates. Part of a season team is the passive-aggressive hand-drawn signs, don’t you think?

Lucille Ward:
Correct.

Terry Cook:
Absolutely.

Lucille Ward:
Yes, absolutely.

Terry Cook:
They spend more time thinking about that than they might some other pieces of their job.

Pete Wright:
Yes.

Lucille Ward:
Correct.

Pete Wright:
Their job, for sure.

Lucille Ward:
Correct. So, I really do appreciate the artwork and the sensitivity that goes into all that.

Terry Cook:
It brings-

Pete Wright:
It comes with a lot.

Terry Cook:
… humor to your life.

Lucille Ward:
Yes, exactly.

Pete Wright:
For sure.

Terry Cook:
That’s a good thing. We need humor every day.

Pete Wright:
So, I’ll turn to you, Terry. Why are we here? We wanted to talk about trends in HR, in the manufacturing sector. Set us up for why we’re sitting together today.

Terry Cook:
Sure. Thanks, Pete. So, the trends in manufacturing, we hear a lot about loss skill. Manufacturing has a lot of skill-based positions in the workplace. You have your machinists. You have your welders. You have all of your electricians. You have plumbers. You could have any number of things in your maintenance. A lot of those skillsets are not as focused on in the labor market anymore as far as people gaining those skills.
So, what’s happening is as these very experienced people in our workplace start leaving the company from retirement, or what have you, they’re having trouble finding those replacements, trying to find those skills to stay in the workplace and keep the company moving.
So, really looking at all of those things and trying to find out, after COVID, where we had people that want to be hybrid and remote, how we attract them back into the workplace overall for those in-person workplaces like manufacturing, and also to make sure we have the right skills in place.

Pete Wright:
Okay. Lucille, boots on the ground. Let’s start with recruitment. What are you dealing with right now?

Lucille Ward:
Lack of skill, having people come in that are very unskilled due to the changes in the voc schools. We spoke about that. I’m very involved in the Blackstone Valley Chamber. And they had set up a hub for all the students that didn’t get into voc school. They’re creating skills for them through welding, robotics, MAC one. I work with mass hire, retraining. We just do a lot of good things.
And we are really pounding the pavement, trying to find the people out there to bring them into work, to give them some skills because really, we are, in the Blackstone Valley, really picking at straws here. And people are walking through the door, wanting 20 bucks an hour, but nothing, but no skills.

Pete Wright:
I want to back you up a little bit. You said there were changes to the voc schools. What are you referring to there? What has changed?

Lucille Ward:
Well, our voc school in our valley has come more of a prep school. So, a lot of the students that should be there, the C and D students, are getting passed up to the A students. The voc schools are taking A students and moving them onto college. We always used to do a lot of work with the voc schools, interns or job sharing, but we don’t do that anymore because we don’t want to train them and then they go off to college.

Pete Wright:
So, the burden of training, how much of the burden of training…you’re talking about working with other associations and chambers to set up facilities for trying to figure out how to give potential employees these skills, how much of that burden falls on you directly? At what point do you say, “We’re just hiring people. And we’re going to try and train them.”?

Lucille Ward:
No, I would say we have worked with Worcester Voc in their Night Life. We’ve worked with the Blackstone Valley Chamber. I would say 40% of that goes into training, the initial training, and then the guys might go back, the supervisors, to tighten things up a bit or give them some real-world training, like, let’s say, welding.
When they’re in a school welding, they’re only learning how to weld in one place. So, they go back and teach them. You’re up. You’re down. You’re all around. You have to come out of your little cubicle, your welding cubicle. They teach them how to read a ruler, tape measure, how to read blueprints. These are all important aspects of the job.

Terry Cook:
Lucille. And I know every position’s different, how much time do you think it does take to get somebody up to speed in those skilled positions you’re looking for?

Lucille Ward:
Oh, at least three to six months, depending on what background the person has.

Terry Cook:
That makes sense.

Lucille Ward:
Even though all…

Pete Wright:
That seems like that’s an intense burden for you to take on as an L&D effort.

Lucille Ward:
Correct. Even we just hired a yard man three months ago, and you’re talking about putting things, beams, onto a forklift, unloading trucks, loading trucks, and he finally loaded his first truck today with no problem after 90 days.

Pete Wright:
Incidentally, apropos of nothing, has this been a trend you’ve seen longer term than the pandemic? I’m interested to see. You’ve been doing this a long time.

Lucille Ward:
The pandemic, for us, we worked right through the pandemic. And we gave incentives for people to come in during the pandemic, extra pay and whatnot. But I would say since it all started really with, for us, our voc school changing its policy, and I think I could be wrong, I don’t know the whole education system, but ever since the advent of MCAS that they have in Massachusetts, which is the teaching frame for all schools.
So, everybody, all school districts, are on the same level of teaching the way they teach. So, the poor and the rich get taught the same communities. And so, the more kids you had passing the MCAS and the highest scores, the more money the schools got from the state. I could be wrong, but I think that’s why the voc schools went that way because, “Oh, we’ll take the A students. They’ll pass the MCAS. We’ll get more funding, blah, blah, blah.”

Pete Wright:
Everybody’s in a budget crisis.

Lucille Ward:
Right.

Pete Wright:
Everybody’s in a budget crisis.

Lucille Ward:
Everybody’s in a budget crisis. So, I do know, two years ago, the local school, their test scores and everything dropped. And everybody’s like, “What’s happening with the school?” Well, the VOC school took 20% of the A students. So, what is going to happen? I would love to know the statistics of how many kids go through VOC and then go to college and graduate college.
And also, I had a gentleman come in with a spoke student plumbing. And I said, “Oh, great. You got a plumbing job. You’ll work in the summer. It will be great.” “Oh, no. I’m going to Brown for finance.” Then why did you go to four years of plumbing? But this is the trend. I just don’t know what to make of it.

Terry Cook:
What I’ve been reading, too, Lucille, and I don’t know if you have as well, is that some people are feeling almost pushed in society to not focus as much on the vocational skills. And there said, everybody needs to go to college, where-

Lucille Ward:
Right.

Terry Cook:
… they were feeling like that was a requirement. And so, I think that could certainly be part of it, too, which is where we’ve seen recently the paper-ceiling information out there and just trying to make sure that we are acknowledging the skill sets that are needed, but also acknowledging people that can gain a lot of these skills without having to go to a college to gain them. They can go to a vocational school, or they can work their way to that experience level.

Pete Wright:
I think it’s very interesting to hear you both talk about this this way because the other side of this narrative is that a four-year degree is less valuable today than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, because they’re so much more expensive. And so, we’re starting to see this argument bubble up. And I’ll speak quite personally as a parent of college-age kids. We’re seeing a lot of information coming home saying, “Look, consider these vo-tech schools. Consider plumbing, electrical, construction. Consider these-”

Lucille Ward:
Good.

Pete Wright:
“… things because the value is a lot higher in terms of what you have to put in to start making a living early.” And higher institutions of higher education four-year degrees are really struggling for recruitment in a lot of areas, not all areas, but in a lot of areas. So, I wonder is that trend, when do those things meet? When will you start reaping the rewards of some of these pop culture narratives?

Lucille Ward:
I think the pendulum is starting to swing the other way with the tuition going up tremendously, the compounding of the interest rates, and parents knowing if their child gets a skill, they’ll be more employable than somebody with a four-year degree. I saw online, I read the other day, I don’t know if I agree with it or not, but the biggest scam is I’m $200,000, $300,000 in debt for a $30,000-a-year job.

Pete Wright:
Yes.

Lucille Ward:
Okay?

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Terry Cook:
Yeah.

Pete Wright:
The news is coming out this year as kids are starting to accept their degrees, that there are schools for the 2025 school year that will cost students $100,000-

Lucille Ward:
Yes.

Pete Wright:
… per year.

Lucille Ward:
Correct.

Pete Wright:
That’s an extraordinary lift. And-

Lucille Ward:
Correct.

Pete Wright:
… I think the hope is, to your point, Lucille, that, that is $100,000-a-year pendulum that’s coming your way.

Lucille Ward:
Correct.

Pete Wright:
And to these kids, to the kids, to the teens, who can earn great livings at doing these jobs that are sorely needed. Yes?

Lucille Ward:
Correct. And manufacturing jobs are getting cleaner. You’ve got robotics. You’ve got engineering. You have all these wonderful new machinery out there in the manufacturing plant that you need to learn how to work it, the skill, but it’s not as dangerous. It’s not as dirty. It’s a cleaner environment.

Pete Wright:
Sure. So, in the spirit of optimism, in the spirit of silver linings, what does work for you for recruitment, in terms of getting the right people who decide to stick around?

Lucille Ward:
Well, we use Worcester Voc Night Life a lot. We have very good luck with them. We are doing a senior scoop, it’s through the Blackstone Valley Hub, and we’ll be at Polar Park in Worcester, which is the farm team of the Boston Red Sox. And we have 300 schools that come through on a rotational basis. And they come with their resumes. They come dressed nicely.
And these are kids that are not going to college that are looking for jobs this summer, whether it’s out in the plant, whether it’s in the office doing AutoCAD, whether it’s a receptionist that we’ll send to school, or accounting 101 or HR 101. So, that’s how we recruit through that avenue. And if we do find someone in the office, and they have no college background, we’ll send them to seminars on HR. We’ll send them to accounting classes at night. We will educate them.
Right now, we have one of our welders in the back who has been here for about 10 years, went to Worcester Voc for welding. In our industry, we need a certified welding inspector, a CWI. We have one right now. And a CWI is the hardest test you’re ever going to take in your life for welding. It’s a welding inspector. And it’s eight days of schooling from 8:00 in the morning to 8:00 at night. You have to fly somewhere. You have to take this tremendous test.
It’s open book, but it’s still a big test. And it’s a deep range of topics regarding welding and safety and inspections of the welds. And it probably costs five or six grand. But for our certification process, we need a CWI.
And we only have one now. Well, this kid, this employee, we put all this money into him to become a CWI, and hope that he stays because he can go off and make a lot of money once he gets his CWI. But we want to do that for our employees. We want to educate them and send them off, like I said, to whatever seminars, whatever nightlife courses or online courses they want to take. We’re very open to all that.

Terry Cook:
Lucile, you shared a story before with me about somebody that you happen to, I think, work with somebody on my team to hire a receptionist, but you had this unique approach to determining which person you selected and how you decided to develop that person. So, I don’t know if you can share a little bit about that.

Lucille Ward:
Oh, yes. We hire on soft skills because all our software in-house is proprietary. So, we have to train them anyway. And so, we hired this person, and she had no off skills, whatsoever, but we knew that we could train her. She was a math major. And we hired her about a year and a half ago as a receptionist. And we promoted her. We sent her to school for some more schooling. And we promoted her to the quality manager. And she has her own office now.
And she’s salary management. And then we hired another replacement receptionist through AIM, again, on the soft skills. And she’s working out really well as well. So, even for our detailing department, our engineering department, we have detailers, AutoCAD, draftsmen.
It takes three years to train them because we have our own metal building software. So, of course, they have to have really good math skills in that department, and they have to have AutoCAD or SolidWorks, and then we’ll take them, and we’ll train them in our software in hopes that they stay. So, every department’s a little different.

Pete Wright:
How much time do you spend thinking about culture?

Lucille Ward:
Well, I don’t have a lot of time to think about it, but if I had to…

Pete Wright:
No, I don’t want to make you do something you don’t want to do.

Lucille Ward:
No, I don’t mean it like that. I just mean… So, every day, I come in, I’m putting out fires, this, that, whatever. Right now, I have all at the same time, 401k, time pod, and payroll platforms I’m changing. Every day, in April, I went home and cried every night.

Terry Cook:
We don’t want you to cry.

Pete Wright:
Oh, my God.

Lucille Ward:
I know. I didn’t really cry, but I’m coming out of the other end of it. It’s getting better.

Pete Wright:
Sure.

Lucille Ward:
And nobody like…

Terry Cook:
So, you’re thinking about culture now?

Lucille Ward:
I’m thinking about culture now. Oh, I don’t know.

Pete Wright:
Well, this is the deal. We spend a lot of time talking about culture. And culture, from an HR context, it seems like your practical reality is that culture is the set of emergent behaviors that come up-

Lucille Ward:
Right.

Pete Wright:
… without you taking a lot of initiative because of all of the bags you carry around every day. And I’m curious, when you look at the struggles that you’re having, getting people, training people, keeping people over the long term, how much of that do you feel like you’re just getting lucky because people like sticking around there and…

Lucille Ward:
50%.

Pete Wright:
50%. You answered so fast.

Lucille Ward:
I know.

Pete Wright:
Tell me more about that.

Lucille Ward:
Well, I just feel like, no, I always am talking to the new hires. “Are you happy? Do you want to do this? Would you like to do that?” And I’m trying to supervise this. You have to talk to your people. You have to see where their mindset is at. You don’t want to come in one day and say, “Oh, I’m leaving. Got another offer. Bye.” And that’s a surprise to you. That’s the office.
The plant is a whole different ball game out there. I tried to not go out there anymore. I tried to make the supervisors do their job. And it’s tough out there. It’s tough. You have a lot of people out there, young people, and then you have the old school. And we try to make everybody happy, but never the twain shall meet, if that’s the saying I want to say.

Pete Wright:
Potentially a leading one. Culture on the floor is very different from culture in the office.

Lucille Ward:
Correct. So, we don’t micromanage. We’re pretty easy-going. We let people do what they need to do from start to finish in the office. And everybody does their job. Everybody does their job out in the plant, but if only we could get them to come in on time and not call in sick so much. How about that?

Pete Wright:
How about that?

Lucille Ward:
I’ll give you a little story. So, I just have this new time clock software. So, there’s all these rules in the software, behind the software. And the rules come from our handbook. So, one rule is you have to be here eight hours before and eight hours the day after a holiday. You have to work the day before and the day… eight hours. So, when I came in on Monday, Patriots’ Day, we had off…
Well, 10 people weren’t getting holiday pay. I’m like, “Oh, gosh, what is going on here?” Well, it’s our handbook rule that we never really followed because the guys, the plant employees, come in 10 minutes late every day, 15 minutes late every day. They leave five minutes early. Well, guess what? They didn’t work eight hours the day before and the day after.

Pete Wright:
To the minute.

Lucille Ward:
To the minute.

Pete Wright:
Oh, no.

Lucille Ward:
So, that’s the rule, right?

Pete Wright:
Yeah.

Lucille Ward:
That’s the rule. So, then I had to dumb it down and change it to seven hours now. How sad is that?

Pete Wright:
Wow.

Terry Cook:
That’s rough.

Lucille Ward:
That’s rough, right?

Terry Cook:
Yeah.

Lucille Ward:
Because I don’t want…

Terry Cook:
Because you can’t get started on time if everybody’s not there, right?

Lucille Ward:
Right. And then you have the other people are here on time all the time in the plant. They’re always late. What the heck? They’re not getting paid. They’re late, but they don’t see it that way. And I totally understand that. So, I had to change that to seven hours.

Terry Cook:
Oh, wow.

Lucille Ward:
So, I know.

Pete Wright:
Talk about the reverse impact of culture-

Lucille Ward:
Right.

Pete Wright:
… on systems.

Lucille Ward:
And I don’t think you have to keep bad employees whether they’re productive or not because I feel like we write people up, but we’re never going to fire them because we can’t really find someone quickly to replace them. We use a lot of relatives. We hire someone, “Oh, do you have a cousin or a brother that might be looking for a job?” “Oh, yes.” And we’ll do that out on the plant floor, hire by word-of-mouth, or we’re looking for some people. I hired two people that were my yoga students’ boyfriends.

Terry Cook:
Anywhere you can find.

Pete Wright:
Anywhere you can get them.

Lucille Ward:
Anywhere I can find them.

Pete Wright:
Well, this is the interesting thing to me. And I think, Terry, your comments are invaluable here. When you look at what Lucille is dealing with, this idea of merging cultures between the old-season people and the new kids who are coming in, the struggle of maintaining cohesion around systems as big as running the big machines to as little as clocking in on time-

Lucille Ward:
Correct.

Pete Wright:
… is extraordinary.

Lucille Ward:
Correct. And in the office, we don’t have any of those problems. We have young employees. And we have seasoned employees. And we all really appreciate everybody’s experience. I will go, “Oh, my God, why isn’t my phone working? Why?” And I’ll call one of the young ones over. They fix it. It’s beautiful. I love it.

Pete Wright:
The young ones.

Lucille Ward:
I love it.

Pete Wright:
Upstanding.

Lucille Ward:
I love it. And I love all the knowledge they have, even though they can’t write out an envelope or a check. I love the knowledge to get address an envelope.

Pete Wright:
Well, this is great, Lucille. I think that gets to the…

Lucille Ward:
Terry is like, “Oh, my God. There we go.”

Pete Wright:
I know.
Dear, God.
Tell me more about millennials writing out envelopes. I want you to reflect just a little bit. You have been doing this a long time. Why are you still doing it? What do you love about it?

Lucille Ward:
Oh, well, I love my company, and I love the owner. They’re super nice. It’s three miles away from my house.

Pete Wright:
Practical love.

Lucille Ward:
Practical love.

Pete Wright:
That’s a real practical love.

Lucille Ward:
Yes. Love the pay. Love the benefits. And it’s just everybody here is very, very nice. And Bob Fisette, who owns the company, is a super nice guy, and his wife, Paula, shout out to them. And I just really love it. And I will be 66. And 10 months is when my retirement is. If I retire, I don’t know what I’m going to do. I could probably fill my day up in the New York Minute, but I don’t know.

Pete Wright:
Well, you could come back and podcast with us anytime you want.

Terry Cook:
You could.

Lucille Ward:
I could.

Pete Wright:
We’ll take you.

Lucille Ward:
We could do a yoga podcast, mindfulness during work-

Pete Wright:
I am found.

Lucille Ward:
… taking a breath, unclenching that chin, take the tongue off the roof of your mouth, roll those shoulders back.

Pete Wright:
Terry, I’m doing it.

Terry Cook:
Wow. We can…

Pete Wright:
I’m trying to keep up, but I just don’t [inaudible 00:26:16].

Terry Cook:
[inaudible 00:26:16].

Pete Wright:
I know.

Terry Cook:
The only other thing I liked that Lucille did share, and I do think it’s important now, is really finding out what some of the benefits or perks that you can give to people that they really are looking for to try to differentiate yourself.

Lucille Ward:
Correct. We don’t want anybody to be bored in a job. When we hired the last receptionist through AIM, I kept telling the person who was training them, “You can’t have her keep doing that. She’s going to be bored. You need to give her something else to do. You need to find out what she wants to do. What is it is she interested in?” And we did. And things got better.
And she seems a lot happier in her position. And again, as far as benefits go, we have a great medical. We got great dental. We have a profit sharing. Even if you don’t contribute to our 401k, you still get a 3% match, 10 paid holidays. We do our ice cream truck in the summer every week at 9:30. You can have ice cream in the morning. And it’s a real-

Pete Wright:
Morning ice cream.

Lucille Ward:
… Mister Softee truck. It’s real ice cream.

Terry Cook:
Right.

Pete Wright:
Oh.

Lucille Ward:
Real ice cream.

Pete Wright:
Okay.

Lucille Ward:
And he even has pretzels and hot dogs.

Pete Wright:
Oh.

Lucille Ward:
And the guys come to work at 6:30 in the morning. So, they’re eating pretzels and hot dogs at 9:30. And then we have a… Oh, gosh. What’s that game with the hole? We have those.

Terry Cook:
Oh, yeah.

Lucille Ward:
Oh, what is it?

Pete Wright:
Cornhole?

Terry Cook:
Cornhole?

Pete Wright:
Thank you. We have cornhole tournaments. Last year, and I think it will happen this year, too, we gave quarterly bonuses to everyone because we did really well.

Terry Cook:
But I think some of those different types of perks, even the ice cream truck you mentioned, I think those are the things… When you tell people you have medical and dental-

Lucille Ward:
They know how [inaudible 00:28:12].

Terry Cook:
… they’re like, “That’s what everybody else is paying.”

Pete Wright:
Those are table stakes.

Terry Cook:
They want to see all the other unique stuff that you’re offering that somebody else is paying.

Lucille Ward:
That’s right. And every Friday, the office gets lunch on the company. And then twice or three times a month, we’ll do it for the guys out in the plant, but they’ll go to Coney Island and get the hot dogs, or they’ll go to Wings over Worcester, and we’ll order big, huge party pizzas. So, we try to keep people well-fed.

Pete Wright:
This is a question, though, because I think really this is an important lesson. We’re in an era of benefits inflation, and I think it’s come down a lot since the early 2010s, but my sense is, again, once you satisfy the table stakes, you’re taken care of on dental and vision and health, how much more do you need to give people a sense that you care and you’re listening?
And I think that doing lunch once in a while and the Mister Softee truck and those things, they sound like maybe for companies that have extraordinary cafeterias and massage services.

Lucille Ward:
Right.

Pete Wright:
They sound trivial. And yet, it also sounds like it really works for you.

Lucille Ward:
It does work for us. Yes, it does. The guys love it. And we’ll give them gas cards at a Christmas party. We raffle off vacation days and sick days, and guess how much cash is in the jar? Put a whole bunch of cash in a jar. Just things like that.

Pete Wright:
So, those are things that matter to them.

Lucille Ward:
Yeah, it does matter to them. We’re in Central Mass. Well, you know, Terry, where we are.

Terry Cook:
I do, Lucille. I knew exactly where you are.

Lucille Ward:
Yes.

Terry Cook:
And maybe more people will know where you are now that they’re listening to all of these fun, exciting offer.

Lucille Ward:
Yes. Maybe we can get somebody’s husband [inaudible 00:30:13].

Pete Wright:
Anybody who’s got some good CAD experience, call Lucille.

Lucille Ward:
Oh, we’re dying here. Please. Oh, gosh. It’s been going on for months. We need somebody with AutoCAD experience. That’s all.

Pete Wright:
All right. Lucille, you’re a star. Thank you so much-

Lucille Ward:
Oh, thank you.

Pete Wright:
… for hanging out with us. This was a treat. And I hope it’s not the last time. I’m sure we could do this for another episode or two, just hearing your stories, but you’ve been really, really helpful. We’re going to put the link to Package Steel in the show notes. Go learn about the company. Particularly, if you’ve got some AutoCAD experience or you know someone who does, go check out.

Lucille Ward:
We have a beautiful website. You could build a building in three days.

Pete Wright:
Okay. That’s fantastic.

Lucille Ward:
Okay. You can even look at all of us. We’re all on there.

Pete Wright:
We’re on it. Thank you so much-

Lucille Ward:
Thank you.

Pete Wright:
… both of you, for helping us, for learning a little bit about the realities of working in a busy HR manufacturing organization. We sure appreciate your time and attention, everybody, for downloading and listening to this show. You can find the show notes. Just swipe up in your show notes.
If you’re listening to this in a podcast app, it’s all right there, but you can also listen to the show at aimhrsolutions.com. We’d love you to head over there and learn more about what the resources that we offer through AIM HR Solutions that might just help your manufacturing organization, too. On behalf of Terry Cook and Lucille Ward, I’m Pete Wright. We’ll see you next week right here on Human Solutions, simplifying HR for people who love HR.