S6 E11: Recalibration 2025: Federal Contractors, Remote Work, and the Morale Crisis

Podcast December 17, 2025

Transcript

Pete Wright
Welcome to Human Solutions, simplifying HR for people who love HR. I’m Pete Wright. The workplace keeps shifting, and in 2025 it feels like it might be shifting faster than ever. Between federal rollbacks and state level regulation and the rapid evolution of AI in hiring and management, HR teams are operating in a landscape that requires constant recalibration. And beneath it all, there’s a quieter but equally urgent story. Employees are tired. Morale has become the number one priority for employers heading into 2026, surpassing even compensation. And that is a signal. Today we are sitting down with Tom Jones and Kyle Pardo to talk about the rollback of affirmative action requirements for federal contractors. the evolution of DEI programs under new scrutiny, upcoming changes to Massachusetts state average weekly wage, and what AI regulation might look like as the technology outpaces the law. And we’ll dig into what AIME’s latest HR practices survey reveals about where employers are focusing their energy and why engagement and morale have moved to the top of the list. Kyle Pardo, Tom Jones, thank you once again for joining this fair webinar.

Kyle Pardo
Great to be back.

Tom Jones
Thank you, Peter.

Pete Wright
Before I ask my first question, I just want to say as a bit of housekeeping, these uh webinars, these monthly webinars have been just a treat, and we are taking a break next month. So uh you can take a break too. That’s right. You get Uninterrupted weeks of lunches. You don’t have to take a lunch to join us for a webinar in January. We will be back in February after we do our own recalibration. And now, all right, 2025 brought some major state and federal regulatory shift. Tom, can you kick us off with a uh with an overview? Is it possible to give us an overview of what’s been going on?

Tom Jones
In a short period of time, not really, but you know, different things, e the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which is a federal agency on anti-discrimination, has had some of its mandate significantly focused.

Pete Wright
Yeah.

Tom Jones
There’s a lot of court cases kicking around, Supreme Court or the federal court system that would limit or alter the powers of federal agencies or the president’s role, he would expand his authority to do more with those agencies. You know, it’s just Congress, at the same time, Congress and the state legislature don’t seem to be doing all that much. The Congress has passed a few different laws, but nothing dramatic or profound as you would think they might have by now with the majorities. State legislature in Massachusetts has taken almost this whole year to go anywhere. So In some ways it’s it’s hurrying to go nowhere. You know, they’re just racing along. It seems to be very active, but they’re not doing much. I mean, we went through what, six we six weeks of shutdown? and earlier this autumn, so delaying any activity. So it’s really hard and you know if you look at ICE has become a much, much more high profile agency, the immigration customs and enforcement. Employers need to be thinking about their I9s much more. We’ve been talking, beating that drum a long time lately, saying you’ve got to be be aware of your I-9, make sure they’re up to date. At the same time, the executive orders keep rolling out of Washington, out of the White House on new topics. So we have to always be alert. Now mind you, that’s not a law. Executive order is not a law, but it’s always something new coming out, some initiative or some limitation on the role of the federal government.

Pete Wright
Yeah, Kyle, when you look at the uh like your perspective on the long arc of the last year. What do you think is going to have the the most significant long-term impact on our employers?

Kyle Pardo
You know about long term sh short term I nines. uh you know this has been a hot topic for employers all of this year as as tom mentioned with with um Ice and in organ in organizations really thinking about taking a look at their I-9. So I think that’s a a current hot topic. Um longer term, you know, DEI, I think we’ll see where that evolves and um and I think we’ll probably talk about AI. So AI legislation that’s been introduced And you know, we don’t know what that looks like yet. Introduced means you know hasn’t been finalized or anything, but I think it’ll be interesting to see what regulations come around AI and how that’s impacting the HR landscape.

Pete Wright
So much of of what I think we uh uh what will echo through this conversation is the uh the friction that exists between uh state legislation and federal action. And there is, it seems to be more of it than ever, uh, and especially maybe in Massachusetts, which tends to be a real bellwether for state action. So let’s start with affirmative action and DEI. Tom, you you kicked us off with the the big two words from the administration, executive orders. some of which directly impact uh our employers, where would you like to start?

Tom Jones
I mean one thing, January 21st. So the president gets sworn in January 20th. January 21st, an executive order comes out repealing the affirmative action order, 11246. And then by April it no longer operates. And there’s a couple of exceptions to that, dealing with veterans and dealing with um some limitations with disability. But for the most part, executive order that executive order wiped out all the affirmative action programs. And employers have to adjust to that. Some may keep some form of affirmative action program, but if you’re a federal contractor, the government may put you under heightened scrutiny. as to whether you should continue to operate with a plan like that. So it’s it’s a work in progress, but definitely that’s one of the major steps on affirmative action. DEI is the next one, the diversity, equity, and inclusion. There was, I think, two more executive orders that came out late January 2025 that would basically call into question any employer diversity program if they were a federal contractor. I mean first out the federal government eliminated their own diversity efforts at the different federal agencies And that sort of sent a message out there to the wider employer community that if you have a diversity program, you’re going to be under heightened scrutiny. And you saw that happen with both different law firms. Over the course of the early part of the year. So I think a lot of companies are going to be taking a step back or taking a pause and saying, what if anything should we be doing to change our diversity efforts? And that’s going to continue to be an issue throughout the next few years of the administration.

Pete Wright
I I kinda can’t believe this was January of 2025. It seems like years have passed since January of twenty five twenty twenty five. I I’m curious your both of your perspectives on the implications. Like you you say employers are going to be stepping back, but the last eleven months have have uh in this area in particular have been I think is it generous to say confusing? Kyle, what do you what have you been seeing?

Kyle Pardo
Yeah, uh so there’s two different pieces. So so with the firm of action plans There’s employers who are still trying to figure out like what do they have to track if anything. And as Tom mentioned, there’s still some components of it that are in place. But but bigger than that, employers are taking a whole different look, I think, at what DEI in kind of the traditional sense may look like. So We ask in our survey every year, what are your top priorities for next year? In 2024, DEI was a top priority. The end of 20 um Heading into 2025, it it fell off the list. So already before we even got to January, DEI was was already kind of um not quite a top priority. Having said that, there have been several surveys done, studies done where close to 100% of employers and employees are saying, you know, employees really want to feel valued and seen in the workplace. And so I think what we’re seeing and we’re going to continue to see is a shift away from kind of what we’ve thought of as DEI, more of a focus on inclusion. And inclusion really broadening that definition of DEI, where we’ve been looking at it as as race and gender, but really thinking it more now as disability and veteran status and um you know uh LGBTQ and so really kind of taking a broader lens at it because we’ll talk about this more, but employers are really or employees are really looking at How are they being welcomed into the workplace? And so I think employers understand they can’t fully uh go away from you know affirmative action. You know, they really need to kind of think about it in a in a broader lens.

Pete Wright
Did it surprise you how quickly that turned after January?

Tom Jones
In some ways, yes, though if you look back, there’s this whole book called Plan 2025 or something like that that had been drafted while the Trump administration was out of office.

Pete Wright
Project twenty twenty five, yeah.

Tom Jones
Once Project 2025, yes. So once they came in beginning in November, once they knew they were gonna be elected, then I think they went back through that project. If you read it over, it’s pretty clear that they’re very bright lines as to what they were gonna try and do on You know, we paid most attention to labor and employment side at AIM, but you know, looking at different programs and what they could change. So I think they had the executive orders pretty well in hand. And that it’s almost like a fire hose of information came out at employers. And the question for a lot of them is, how much do we have to actually do? And that’s, you know, Kyle’s point, taking a pause and thinking through how much work do we actually have to do to comply with it? Do we have to comply with it? Can we continue to do what we’re doing normally? What’s the risk? And so that put a lot of companies in almost the back foot a little bit

Kyle Pardo
And I think the employers too who were receiving uh federal grants or other funding were the ones too who were being a little bit more cautious and trying to think about like, okay, how do we continue to support our employees? And how do we continue to value what we value, but not uh risk losing some of that funding?

Pete Wright
If a company isn’t or doesn’t have a f any federal contractors, do these executive orders affect them at all? Does it affect them implicitly? Does it affect them culturally?

Tom Jones
Culturally perhaps. I mean, if you don’t, you know, they’re they’re only a proclamation by a president. Executive order. They’ve been going on forever, but they’re just a proclamation. So he is typically limited in the scope as to what they can do. Like Kyle said, federally funded. Programs, yes. You know, you’re getting money from the federal as a contractor, as a uh grant recipient or whatever it might be, yes, that’s gonna impact you. But for a company that says makes widgets in central Massachusetts, has fifty employees there and has no federal contracts, they sell it to the private market. They’re pretty much untouched by this legally. Now whether culturally or whether they want to do something about it or morally or whatever is a whole different story, but I think legally they’re pretty much beyond the scope of it.

Kyle Pardo
And I’ll just use another example, which is that there’s an executive order that uh recognized only two genders.

Tom Jones
She

Kyle Pardo
And so

Pete Wright
Yes

Kyle Pardo
You know, so if it’s a if it’s a federally regulated health insurance plan, for example, an ERISA plan, that may change how reporting is done in that sense. It doesn’t mean that an employer can’t still recognize uh you know other genders or or or how that’s done in in the workplace.

Pete Wright
Right. Fluidity of genders, yeah.

Kyle Pardo
But it’s right, it’s it’s uh you know it might just be a kind of on a federal reporting piece that that would be different.

Pete Wright
Uh I know we’re going to come back to some questions that that relate to this, but let’s move on to our next big topic. This one for Tom, the state average weekly wage. What is saw and why do we need to be thinking about it?

Tom Jones
Well, the SA is the basis for three different major programs here in the state. One of them is unemployment insurance, another one is workers’ compensation, the third is the paid family medical leave Basically, as the saw adjusts every year, all of those, and it goes up, it never goes down, all of those benefits attached to those increase. putting cost on the system. For example, our unemployment. So let me back up a minute. The SAR right now is $1,922 for the new year. Workers compensation, the maximum benefit is 100% of that. Paid family leave, the maximum benefit is 64% of that. Unemployment the maximum benefits, 50% of that. Now, in 2000, I went back and looked in the year 2000, 25 years ago, the state average IQ wage was $600. So it’s more than tripled in the space of twenty five years. And that’s a factor in cost for companies, obviously. The more, you know, the f faster it grows, the more benefits increase, the more benefits increase, the more the charges to levied on employers to pay for it increase. So we want to just make sure people were wearing the saw. I know it’s gonna probably gonna help bankrupt the UI system in the next couple years here in Massachusetts And it ends up causing us to have the highest benefits in the country in unemployment insurance. And that just is a driving factor and is to m just wanted to make sure people were aware of what that would mean.

Pete Wright
W I I I feel like we also need to do a vibe check on this, however, Tom, because you know, there are intended and unintended consequences of this number in particular and D I i you know, at at what point do you see m smaller employers saying, you know, I think we might have to cap our benefits because costs are getting out of control?

Tom Jones
Well, they might. I mean You know, they can’t they have other benefits they could offer. If these three become so expensive because of the saw increase, the potential exists to have to um to uh trim other benefits perhaps? I mean Kyle may see that in the you know in the surveys that we do. I don’t know if you’re gonna see that at all, but you think of things like um you know, health insurance and uh other elective more elective benefits, perhaps it could have an adverse impact on it, you know, as these costs continue to go up.

Pete Wright
Uh okay, that’s the saw. We’re uh we can move on from the saw. It’s a good update, and uh thank you for that. We’ll have some links to so if you want to read more about the saw, let us move. to AI, to our robot overlords. Uh w what it things have changed a lot. We’ve done a number of uh conversations, taken a number of questions about AI over the last uh several years on this platform. W what are you seeing uh and what should Massachusetts employees expect as AI continues to develop?

Tom Jones
Sure. I mean I think you’re gonna see some disruption and displacement in the workplace. People are gonna have to get retrained to ways to use AI. Companies are gonna have to. And it won’t be necessarily mean getting rid of employees. It’ll rather mean that you used to do A, B, and C, now you have to do A, B, C, D, E in order to implement your use AEI more successfully.

Pete Wright
Because ideally D and E uh C D and E you’ll be able to do much faster.

Tom Jones
But Correct.

Pete Wright
That’s the that’s the proposed thinking.

Tom Jones
Correct. And you and you’ll it’ll enhance productivity and do that. Now in some cases that may mean people getting dismissed from their jobs because they’re redundant. or no longer you know necessary in that position. But the overall goal, as you would hope, would be to improve efficiency, improve productivity, and not to see it used as a tool to get rid of people. across the board. But you know, there’s a transition period in which people aren’t quite sure where things are going at the moment.

Pete Wright
That’s that’s part of of the question of friction that we’re talking about, right, between the state and in the federal. But uh but before we dig into that, I’m curious, Kyle, from the pract HR practices survey, what are you seeing from our employers? How is HR using or responding to AI in the workplace right? Right now.

Kyle Pardo
So it’s interesting. I I actually went back and I listened to a podcast that the three of us did in the beginning of 2024. So almost two years ago. And at that point, we we were smart enough to say, I think AI is we’re gonna be using it more and more, right? We we kind of knew that two years ago. So At that point, the survey results said that 8% of employers were using AI in HR. So last year that number went up. to 14% and this year it’s up to 26%. So three times where we were two years ago. So still, you know, only a quarter of employers, but I think you know, I’m gonna make the prediction now when we look at it again a year from now, uh if that’s gonna be exponential. I just think it’s gonna keep keep increasing. And we asked employers, you know, in how are you using it in HR? And number one is in recruitment. So applicant tracking systems. I I continue to be really optimistic about AI and how it can be used to get rid of those repetitive tasks, but I still just urge caution, just from a compliance standpoint, you know, applicant tracking systems can be great. They can kind of can learn your preferences, see what you, you know, the types of people you like to hire for your organization, but really, you know, double checking with vendors, making sure that these systems don’t have a a bias in it that’s going to you know cause further discrimination or in that sense. But uh recruiting is number one. The second most uh used area is onboarding. So people developing kind of onboarding modules for their employees. Some of them are interactive. So you’re sitting there you have a conversing with the chatbot and the chatbot’s you know teaching you about the company and about your benefits and about you know where you access different things in the organization. So People are using it that way. Third one is understanding your compensation and benefits. So, you know, those areas can be can be challenging sometimes for people to understand. You think of benefits, what’s covered, what’s not covered. So using AI for that. And then the fourth one is for learning and development. So different types of training modules. But again, you know, the caution I’ve I’ve said before and I’ll keep saying it is There’s room for error, right? And so if you’re using AI to tell people about their employee benefits or about onboarding, you know you know, what errors could could come up, could they tell you you’re covered for surgery and you’re not. So um, you know, I think it’s great. I think we’ll continue to use it for these these everyday types of tasks. But um but use some caution there.

Tom Jones
It’s interesting, Pete. I’m sorry to interrupt. There’s a case that came up in Massachusetts recently in which a company was alleged to have used. AI kind of like in Massachusetts it’s illegal to use a lie detector as part of the hiring process. So this case evolved on whether using the AI robot was the equivalent of using a lie detector in determining whether or not that applicant was telling the truth. And so litigations come out of that. The most recent case, the case was dismissed because the court said no, it had didn’t have sufficient evidence. But it’s we’ll see cases like those come up As people don’t get jobs, as people you know begin to question, or someone says, you know, you can imagine a scenario. Someone in HR says, well, we didn’t hire you because the robot said you were you know, un untruthful. And it it just creates litigation, has the potential for doing it. And so there’s a lot of word about discrimination as well for the same reason.

Pete Wright
Uh yeah, I I’ll tell you what’s what’s on my mind about this, because it’s it has changed uh over the last two years, as you can imagine, especially when it comes to to recruiting because we have seen people who have been let go of their jobs for one reason or another stay on the job market longer than anyone would ever have expected, right? They are hunting and hunting and hunting for work. What they are seeing is they’re getting no responses from potential employers at all, and hearing that employers are using these recruiting systems. And w with AI built in to filter out people they want to talk to and and not even respond to those they don’t want to talk to. And as a response to this Job seekers are using AI to create variants of resumes and cover letters and submit in numbers never ever seen before, sending hundreds of applications a week. To jobs that are getting thousands and thousands of people. So we’ve essentially built our own sort of mutually assured destruction in the hiring process.

Tom Jones
Yeah.

Kyle Pardo
Yeah.

Pete Wright
Can you comment on this sort of cognitive dissonance? What have we done to ourselves for actually finding the really great people and keeping them?

Kyle Pardo
It’s so funny that you bring that up because uh one of the complaints that that uh was brought up in the surveys people talked about the challenges with hiring and finding the right people and one of them is getting people to respond. And so HR people are frustrated that applicants aren’t responding. Applicants are frustrated because HR people aren’t responding And I I think it’s almost information overload in some instances. You know, there’s so many people applying for jobs that out HR people are overwhelmed and trying to sort through because it’s it You know, again, we go back to the kind of old days of we had to write the letter and you had to stay up on it and get in the mail, you’re really thoughtful about where you applied and that process

Pete Wright
There was friction, and that was beneficial, right?

Kyle Pardo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think the same thing.

Tom Jones
Right.

Kyle Pardo
I think applicants are applying to so many things. Sometimes they forget where they applied. So HR people, you know, reach out and then the the applicant doesn’t respond. So it’s it’s becoming a little bit of a a crazy loop with with the recruitment process.

Pete Wright
Yeah, I don’t I I want to acknowledge that I bring this up, noting we don’t have an answer for it, I don’t think. Maybe it’s too soon, maybe it doesn’t exist, but we should be talking about it because it’s damaging for both parties.

Kyle Pardo
Yeah.

Pete Wright
to be in this kind of information overload. We’re not we’re not doing something right.

Kyle Pardo
Yeah, yeah. And you can get a rejection letter now, you know, within minutes of applying, right?

Pete Wright
Yeah.

Kyle Pardo
If your if your criteria and your on your resume doesn’t quite meet the expectations, you can get that rejection letter pretty quickly.

Pete Wright
Well, blessing be to those who are sending rejection letters at all, because that’s that’s really gracious.

Kyle Pardo
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pete Wright
Just send something. Note to self you were heard. Uh all right, well that actually leads us to our final big question, the biggest trend that we talked about in our introduction here. Morale and engagement, uh, what is going on uh with uh with morale as the number one trend right now?

Kyle Pardo
Number one.

Pete Wright
What are our top priorities?

Kyle Pardo
Yeah. So we ask this question every year. And four of your top five priorities, there are four topics that have come up every year for the last eight years. compliance, compensation, recruiting and retention, and safety. So those four have switched places in the top five for the last eight years. Morale and engagement just came on the scene last year as number five, and this year it’s jumped up to number one. So this is really I think it’s interesting. It’s right, this is this is brand new and um Uh you know, I think I think everyone has a lot going on. We’re s we’re we’re five years post-COVID, but I think there’s some some remnants of that. And Um there’s there’s people who are kind of struggling to to pay the bills. I think there’s people who um are working a couple of jobs, so there’s there’s some burnout and stress. I think there is some, you know, I’m gonna call them HR adjacent factors, which are things like uh transportation and childcare and housing and uh lots of pressures on on people in general. And so then they’re coming to the workplace and thinking, like, I need my employer to support me. I need to be in an in an environment where, you know There’s people who uplift me and and and I’m feeling engaged in doing something something meaningful. So I think it’s really interesting that this is kind of really kind of catapulted to the number one priority for this year

Pete Wright
Well, it’s really interesting when you look at it in in the context of the shift away from compensation as a top focus, because all of the things that you’re talking about. with regard to the stresses of 2025-2026 living uh uh seem to be uh related to an affordability crisis that we’re dealing with. And if compensation were able to address some of those things and we could afford transportation and child care and health care. would that lead to a change in morale? Or is there you know, is there something else leading to um this crisis? gets us right back to our to the uh DEI question from the beginning. When we stop feeling heard, is that the direct line to to the morale issues?

Kyle Pardo
I I I absolutely think so. And I and I do think you know money helps, right? Of course. People love a good bump in their paycheck. Um, but there’s some parts of that, there there’s caregiving, you know, that with the Sanders generation, there are many people who are caring for their their kids and their parents at the same time. Um and that that doesn’t get resolved, you know, quickly with with a change in your paycheck. Um there are uh mental health issues. There’s um and so you know I think I think employers are trying to figure out how do we uh how do we have a culture that where people want to be every day? And and so another piece kind of added into this that we saw in the survey is the return to in-person work. And so um uh uh last year there were uh I think it was only 39% of companies that required uh in-person work. This year it was 50%. So we’re we’re seeing it the return to the workplace happen. And Employers thinking, I think part of that is, you know, we can be better at developing our culture and when we physically can see other people, not not just from a remote environment. So I I think people and leaders are aware of these challenges in in the culture and engagement piece, but um you know I I think we’ll continue to see that in the next couple of years as well.

Pete Wright
The uh we we talk about all the other um survey responses. I think this hybrid work thing is is a a significant one and represents potentially a a leadership employee rift that we should also probably be talking about, right? I’m curious your perspectives on the word mandate. at work, the in-person, the return to work mandate and its direct impact on morale. Am I reading too much into it?

Kyle Pardo
Uh no, I I mean uh there’s there’s a couple of different camps on it, right? There there are people who I who I said they that in person is important because of the culture, because of trust issues, people saying if I, you know, I need to see you working to know that you’re working. So uh focusing on the input rather than than the output. Rates just there are some organizations who say, you know, as long as you get the reports to to me at the end of the month, I’m good. I don’t care where you do it, I’m okay with it. And other people say, like, I really need to see you putting in your time to know that that it’s getting done. Uh maybe some people are justifying the office space, so they they want people back in. But um, you know, we all get used to the remote work. And and so the mandate that that word you you’re using, um people say like, well why why do I have to be back there? Um and and I think when we talk about kind of those HR adjacent functions. Some people moved further away from work during COVID because, you know, it was it was less expensive to live outside of a city rather than maybe in a city. And so you move further away. So now when you have this mandate to return to work, you have a longer commute or more expensive commute. And so those are the types of things I think that that impact uh overall morale.

Tom Jones
And sometimes people moved away with companies’ permission.

Kyle Pardo
Yeah.

Pete Wright
Yeah, right. And now the company has to turn around and mandate. Yeah, rescind it.

Tom Jones
Right.

Kyle Pardo
Yeah, yeah.

Pete Wright
Right. Are there uh compliance or legislative factors that are influencing morale issues, Tom?

Tom Jones
Well it’s funny I I we have a government affairs department here at AIM and I spoke to the s one of our people in that department yesterday He said interestingly enough, he anticipates a White House executive order coming in, it would ban states from regulating AI. you know, over the course of the at least the Trump administration. I don’t know if how much that will happen or not, but it’s really that they’re trying to centralize it so there’s one standard So that may have some uh blowback for different companies as well and for different employees, depending on what the regulations are, if there are any. If there are any that come out of it. Um that’s You know, the leave laws, Massachusetts has pretty solid number of leave laws that are very popular with employees, in fact, sometimes to the consternation of HR. and to different companies, you know, they’re delivered they’re struggling with it, but other proposals, seeing one out there in bereavement weave that would make it mandatory. That’s about the only weave left in Massachusetts, I think, that we don’t have mandatory.

Pete Wright
In terms of your leave bingo card, the Massachusetts leave bingo card?

Tom Jones
And I think Right.

Pete Wright
Yeah.

Tom Jones
Yeah. And I think there’s a law in Oregon that would make it mandatory.

Pete Wright
Yeah. Yeah. I’ve I’ve heard that swimming around, yeah.

Tom Jones
That’s probably one that’s kicking around too much else at the moment.

Pete Wright
Yeah.

Tom Jones
There would you know a lot of stuff seems to be not um very fluidly not necessarily going anywhere, but So they’re being kicked around and considered by different organizations.

Pete Wright
Well, that seems to be the word of uh the uh conversation today is watch for these areas of friction. between state and federal uh and and keep an eye on that morale. That is a that’s a big surprise. It’s a surprise not surprising.

Kyle Pardo
Yeah, yeah.

Pete Wright
Uh Right. So uh thank you both, Kyle Pardo, Tom Jones. Thank you both for hanging out uh with me today for sure. I uh I So appreciate these conversations. I hope these are appreciated by those who are listening. Thank you everybody who uh are are dining and webinaring with us today. We appreciate your time. and your attention. Don’t forget we’ve got uh show notes. Look at those show notes for any resources that we’ve talked about. We’ll put some links to the resources that that will help you feel better engaged in this time of great Great change. You can also listen to the show right there on aimhrsolutions. com. But also subscribe to Human Solutions wherever you get your podcasts with us. Whether that’s Apple Podcasts or Spotify or YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts, you can find the show and listen to a replay of these webinars and find our entire catalog, our entire history while we’re taking a break in January. There are dozens and dozens of past episodes that you can listen to. We’re totally binge worthy. How about that? We’re totally bingeworthy. On behalf of Tom Jones and Kyle Pardo, I’m Pete Wright. And we’ll see you next year right here on Human Solutions.